WHATS THE SCOOP ON BIKE SALES
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    I always see dissatisfied 4t owners switching to 2t quite frequently so 2t have at least some amount of following yet all say everyone who buys new wants the 4t and that is the reason for dropping the 2t from the evolutionary to the euthanasia track as well. 

    how are new bikes really selling and are the factories meeting market demand in the lower feeding circles ?
  • NZriderNZrider
    Posts: 5,086
    I believe for every dissatisfied 4 stroke owner converting to 2 stroke theres at least 1 2 stroke owner quietly getting a 4 stroke in a blind attempt to keep up with his buddys on 4 strokes. I think the new market matchs pretty well to the demand here in NZ.

    infact i'd say there is an excess of 125s that nobody seems to be able to sell for what I would consider a fair asking price. yet we still have early to mid 2000s 4 strokes that people are selling for twice the price of a good condition newer model 125.

    personally i think the modern 4 strokes have got a bad rep left over from the first models back in the early 2000s.

    cont speak for the US market though.
    *********************
    Winning is 90% rider and only 5% bike, the rest is luck
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    are they clearing their floors in New Zealand?  i have seen some indication of poossible slow sales around here but i haven't bothered to confirm that info.
  • NZriderNZrider
    Posts: 5,086
    nah all motorbike sales here in NZ are right down. have been for a few years. im just referring to the ratio of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke i see in new bikes at events I attend.
    *********************
    Winning is 90% rider and only 5% bike, the rest is luck
  • hairscrambledhairscrambled
    Posts: 1,753

    I would imagine some of it depends on what the bike is used for. If you're going to race MX, I think anyone on a 2t is at a disadvantage, so liking a 2t better or being dissatisfied with the 4t doesn't matter. Winning does.


    As far as market demand - the manufacturers are in business to make money and if the demand for the 2t was there and sustainable, they would not have stopped production. Granted - environmental rules come into play as far as the cost effectiveness of re-tooling the assembly line as the laws get stricter, but I still think 4ts are the future, (and that's coming from a very happy 2t fan).


    I think KTM has shown that there is still a loyal 2t fan base, but it it strong enough to translate into profit for the rest of the colors?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hudson Valley NY
    2006 KX 100

    "If you don't have a dream, how can it come true?"
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    i think a 300cc 2t from one of the big four would shuffle the deck on bike sales.
  • Dirt Dont HurtDirt Dont Hurt
    Posts: 2,678
    If that happens you'll be damn right a YZ300 would be right on my wish list. I wonder what would happen in junior racing if the big four started selling 170-190cc 2 strokes allowed in the 250f class, although the 250f would most likely still be at an advantage in the racing department. Apparently Honda has some 2 stroke plans for 2014
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    "Be nice to your mechanic or make sure to double check your axle nuts"

    No cams, No valves, No problems
    -2000 Yamaha YZ125
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    i ,of course, was speaking about an off road bike to compete with the ktm 300 2t.
  • Maple Leaf MXMaple Leaf MX
    Posts: 12,823
    I think dirtbikes r dangerous and should be banned
    Expect to die whenever but dream to live forever

    ..the good times on the old DR board will never be back! RIP!
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    must have DNFed.,,  lol!!!
  • csullycsully
    Posts: 6,645
    Working in a dealership, I can answer this question with confidence.  

    Neither the four stroke or the two stroke are dying.  It depends on the rider, the mechanic, and the type of riding they are doing.  For my shop, and my area in particular, four stroke MX bikes sell the most and the big bore dual sport bikes are right up there with them (like the 350 and 500 EXC).  Southern California is a HUGE center of motocross, and my shop in particular has an outstanding amateur race program (we are a Yamaha Track Side and Team Green dealer).  It's only natural that we see them selling more frequently.  However, many guys who were riding WR's or CRF-X's are switching to things like the 300 XC-W for off-road riding, mostly because of weight, not necessarily power or ease of maintenance.  The four strokes only become expensive when you grenade them or race them very competitively.  We also sell a ton of 250 XC and XC-W's because it's a light weight bike, that now, due to current AMA rules, run in the 250 (light weight) class in the desert….so now you have a bike with roughly twice the horse power than its competitors in the same class, and in the desert where the riding doesn't rely on quick blips of the throttle (like coming into a jump right out of a corner) but more flat out speed and extremely technical sections, this is a huge advantage.  

    It basically comes to this:  the industry as a whole is hurting.  The economy is down and manufacturers are forced to narrow their focus.  This is why there are almost no sole factory teams anymore.  Motocross and Supercross are where the money is right now…off-road riding, while more universally run across the world, doesn't have the money behind it.  It's not a spectator sport and it doesn't draw the attention that motocross does.  Not to mention, your average weekend warrior will buy a bike and make it last for 6-10 years…well a hard core moto guy will buy a new bike every year or two.  So, they produce the bikes they can sell more of…the ones that will get their name out there more than others:  those are the moto bikes (four strokes).  You don't see people coming into the shop to come buy a 450XC-W because Kurt Caselli, Mike Brown, and Ivan Ramirez raced it in Baja…but you do see people coming in to buy the KX450F because Ryan Villopoto won Monster Cup on it. 

    On the whole though, no the two stroke isn't dying.  If anything, there is an increased demand for it and companies like Husky, Beta, and KTM (and by proxy Husaberg) are taking advantage of this.  The Japanese guys will need to play catch up eventually.  
    .................................
    -Courtney

    "Only the desert has a fascination to ride alone in the sun in the forever unpossessed country away from man. That is a great temptation."
    --D.H. Lawrence
  • coyotekiller
    Posts: 1,122
    thanks Courtney,  i knew those europeans wind up being useful for something since it is the cradle of western civ .  lol
  • sean
    Posts: 3,665
    Damn! nice
  • Great perspective Court.

    I was a convert for a little over a year. I sunk some money into a really low hours RMZ 450.....fuel injected....a real joy to ride. I really really dug the 4 stroke on the track but they way my lifestyle and work schedule goes I was lucky to get out 3 times this past summer.  The bike was collecting dust and I had a really hard time justifying a $4000 trophy piece in my garage.  Not to mention the fact that every time I rode around the woods and trails near our house I was constantly thinking, I'm putting hours on the bike, I need to check the valves,....man this thing is a 4000 investment, what happens when it blows up.

    Two weeks ago I traded a guy for a 2005 YZ250 and $1900 cash.  I've been riding 3 times in the last two weeks and have a clear conscience during my rides....I pin it often and feel like I'm just as fast on it as I was on the 4 stroke (I haven't been to a track on it and imagine there will be a little hit there...especially in the supercross style stuff).

    So, while I think the 4 stroke is a better choice for serious and competitive riders, for my purposes the two-stroke makes a lot more sense.


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    2005 YZ250

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