Dirt Rider Magazine

Metal Mulisha

what kind of oil are you talking about. tranny or engine oil.

i heard honda gn4 10w40 and honda hp4 10w40 were good. that is what i would use. one is for tranny and the other is for engine.

http://powersports.honda.com/the_goods/parts_and_service/list.asp?TheGoodsDir=1

Metal Mulisha

I read on another forum a while ago that they used rotella 10w30 oil, I went and got some and once I got home, I noticed it said "diesel motors only" why? is this the wrong stuff, I have a feeling it is...

heres what I bought:

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rotellaav7.png

YZriderr

What bike do you have?

Danner34

The world of motor oils can be a complicated mess. I spent a whole afternoon researching this and came to the following conclusions:

For transmission and clutch lubrication on 2-stroke engines you can use car transmision fluid with great success. Or JASO MA certified oil.

For 4 stroke motors your best bet is to find a motor oil that meets the JASO MA specification. In case of CRFs use JASO MA on clutch side and JASO MB on tranny side. (MA is ok if you can't find MB, but MB is better)

Metal Mulisha

I have a 2005 crf 450, I was told you can just put either 10w30 or 10w40 in both sides in my other thread,

I decided to buy 2 gallons of that 10w30 and just change both sides often, and put the same oil in.

I read somewhere people were using rotella and some other brand that started with a R. I went and bought that rotella and it says diesel only on the bottom...

There is a pic in the first post, I dont know how to make it easy to see, just copy and paste the link in the first post.

thanks.

elko6

hey check out my post. use that stuff then you dont have to worry. 10w30 isnt that good of an oil. it can only be used between like 20 to 90 degree weather. 10w40 can be used in almost any weather unless its like above 120 degrees or something like that then your suppose to use 20w50. the stuff i showed you is good and you dont have to worry about it. and it about the same price as everything else.

Metal Mulisha

but it says for diesel engines... my dirtbike obviously isint a diesel engine.

is that oil going to hurt anything if I use it?

elko6

i would not use that. take it back and get the stuff i showed you.

Metal Mulisha

*** which stuff is that.

elko6

honda 4 stroke oil

here is some pics of what it looks like

Metal Mulisha

oh yeah, thats right.

that oil is expensive as hell, and i have to go to the city to get it (1.5 hr away).

I was just gonna stick with the middle level stuff and change it more often. Just buy a bunch of pennzoil 10w 40 and change every 5 tanks of gas.

I also have ran the cheaper 89 octane gas through my bike, and I read the 91 octane is better, so I filled my jerry can with that today, anything I should know about that? I think I read you have to run it dry then put the 91 octane in.

elko6

93 is better. but wow that is far. you mean to tell me that yuou have no dirt bike shops or any kind of motorcycle shop around you. and if you think about it, changing oil more often to make up for using a lower grade oil is about the same cost as using a better oil. and i dont think its that expensive. its about average. if you seriously have no shops around you maybe you can get the dealer to mail it to you. drive down there one day and talk to them about it and i am sure that they would mail it to you whenever you need some and pay them through the mail or over the phone or something.

Metal Mulisha

I actually have a bike shop, its super tiny so the selection is probably super small, and super expensive.

I think its near 16$ per bottle. the shell oil costs 3.50 per bottle.

elko6

well i dont know what to tell you. that is what i would use. but its up to you.

Metal Mulisha

ok, heres the thread I was reading where the guys all said they were using rotella.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-418324.html

one guy says "i tried the rotella 15-40 diesel oil like alot of people here said to, but it does not work as good as the pro honda hp trans oil. with a rekluse clutch like i have you can tell easier because they are more sensitive. rotella = more friction"

another says " A lot (well some) use the Shell Rottella T 15W50 in the engine and trans. keeps it simple and the oil always gets rave reviews when talked about."

"
I like Rottela T 15-40 in the tranny and the motor and I change it very often."

"I have tried several different oils in the trans and I keep coming back to Shell Rotella 15w-40."

Im not trying to argue, but I think this oil will work.

Isnt diesel oil super super black and thick? this stuff looks gold just like all my other oils. I know youre not supposed to go by color but it just looks like the right kind.

those guys were using 10w40 and 15w40.. I only have 10w30 so what does that mean? I know I should be using 40 because its made for hotter weather, but my shell didnt have any 40.

atkkid250

i dont know what to tell you. i mean the cheaper stuff. 10w40 is fine. thats what i have been running in 4 stroke. and 10w30 when i run out of 40. im sort of in the same situation as you as far as bike shops. i got one that screws you over about an hour from here. after that it gets better but its farther away... ~pat

Metal Mulisha

but all those other guys are running that rotella "diesel" oil. I am going to assume that it wont harm my bike.

and it would almost be cheaper to go into the city to buy oil, shipping is expensive as hell :(

I will put up a video in an hour or so, I HAVNT put the rotella oil in my bike yet, and I just took it for a ride and my little brother noticed it was kind of making a weird noise. He was right, it was making a little rattleing noise, ill make a vid later.

also, when I first started my bike, it smoked a little out of the exhaust, but once I drove it for about 10 mins and brought it back home, the smoking seemed to have stopped. I think it was smoking in the first place because the oil was old, grey, sludge.

I will post the video in an hour or so.

thanks.

Metal Mulisha

ps: when you say 10w 40 oil, what exactly does the 10 mean? and what does the 40 mean?

atkkid250

40 is the weight. you can say 40 weight for example. vs. 30 weight or 80 weight. the number before the w is about "winterization" its about teh thickness and how it reacts under different temperatures. thats as i understand it. someone might revise my answer.~pat

Metal Mulisha

heres the vid: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=B2dvftDPjVA

the quality is so bad its embarassing, I will re film it when I get my camera back.

but I think my engine is making a weird sound, im not too sure and dont want to wreck it further if something is wrong with it :(

atkkid250

hmm. i think i hear what yor talking about. like something is rubbing sort of almost? cant place it from the video though. wheres it coming from? topend? timing chain a bit slackish? i dont htink its piston slap. im not good with this kind of stuff. a vet will know. ~pat

Metal Mulisha

Yeah, I will get a better video later, that one is actually pretty damn bad.

I know my chain is loose, but that has nothing to do with it, its only idling in that video and it doesnt sound too healthy.

atkkid250

the timing chain and the drive chain are completely different. ~pat

Metal Mulisha

oh ok.

Im pretty new to dirtbikes so I dont know very much about them.

atkkid250

no problem. only question. why ride a 450 if your new ? lol . if you can ride it good for you! lol ~pat

Metal Mulisha

lol. yeah, I knew I shouldht have said I was "new"

I have ridden many many dirtbikes before, this is the first one Ive ever owned myself though.

what im new at, is the maintenance part, fixing it, how to tell if its broken or not, etc..

I rode a lot when I was younger and my dad did everything.. fixing, tuning, gas mixing, starting it, etc..

I can handle the 450 easy, catwalk, jumps, every and anything. ive ridden a lot of bikes, just have never had to maintain them myself. thats where im new.

atkkid250

gotcha. im pretty new to everything lol. only been riding for about 2 years now. i just had to leanr quick cause i have allways had to do my own maintanence. cause bikes arent my dads cup of tea. im beter with two strokes. ~pat

Metal Mulisha

the only bikes my dad would ever buy are 4 strokes, we musta bought, ridden and sold nearly 80 of them, ranging from a 1980 xr50 to a 2005 crf450.

Im not great with engines, I dont know what a driveshaft is/does, or how exactly an engine works, what piece goes where. I have no idea what valves are, what they do, how they work, or how to replace them. I will learn all that one day though.

I just started my bike and for the first 10 seconds or so, there was a bit of smoke, than after than it seemed to die down? I am thinking that there is oil dripping into my engine somehow as I type this, if I let it sit for about an hour and start it, it will smoke again because theres a few drops of oil that leaked into the engine or what?

atkkid250

naah. at start up its fine. unless your oil level is dropping significicantly. your fine. ussually there is allways smokeing of some sort even on 4 strokes. if it seems like its way to much maybe you've got blow by, the only way your burning oil is if you've got oil coming in to your cylinder. ~pat

YZriderr

Yea it may be expensive, but, it could save you troubles down the road.

I had to pay 15 buck per bottle for my belray H1R

elko6

ok i am not trying to be an ass but you asked whats the differences of 10w30 and 10w40 and i already said this in one of my posts.

10w30 isnt a good oil to use. its only rated to use in 10 to 90 degree weather.

10w40 is the ideal oil to use. it can be used in 10 to 110+ degrees.

now you have 20w40. this should only be used if its extreme temperatures. its good to be used within 35 to 120+ weather.

dont quote me on any of this because i got the information out of my honda manual.

i think your problems could be from your valves. if you dont know what valves are or how to adjust them then i suggest you sell that bike, because this is a major maintenance bug that you will have to deal with forever on that bike. take them to someone or a shop to have your valves checked.

i suggest you take your bike to a shop because it will be impossible to explain to someone on a forum on how to fix something on that bike that is internal.

you need to get 2 manuals. a service manual and an owners manual. the service manual is about 700 pages long andl explains how to fix stuff on your bike. the first 3 chapters in that are on maintenance. the owners manual i highly suggest you get and read the whole thing. it is about 50 pages long and will explain everything about your bike. how the engine works and stuff like that.

Metal Mulisha

Yeah, I know the w40 oil is better, all I could find at shell was a w30 oil, I will check wal mart, they should have some for sure.

I have no idea what valves are or how to adjust them, and im sure you were like that at one point in time too ;). Im sure once I pick up those 2 manuals and read a few more forums I will learn how, im sure its not that hard. worst case scenario is I have to take it to a mechanic one time, or learn to do it myself.

there is a lot of confusion about that oil I bought still, Im not sure wether I should use it or not, it says for diesel engines, but people on the other forum say they use it?

I drained all my oil and put 10w30 in BOTH the tranny and motor, filled it up to the proper level, now my little brother is telling me I used the wrong oil. I just threw some pennziol 10w30 in the right side (motor), and cheap shell 10w30 in the tranny. now my bro is saying I put the wrong oils in, is he right or wrong? (I was planning on changing the oil every 3 or 4 tanks of gas)

elko6

valves are not a one time thing and like i said before if you think it is a one time fix then that bike is not for you. try every 20 hours the valves should be checked. and adjusted and shimmed when out of spec. i heard the are hard to do but some people say they are easy. you could easily mess up your bike when doing this. get those manuals and read and you will learn a lot. 3 to 5 rides is better. and by that i mean like at least 3 or 4 or more hours of riding every time. you should clean or replace your oil filter often. i dont know exactly how often becuase my bike doesnt have an oil filter.

Metal Mulisha

I got a stainless steel oil filter, a re usable one.

my main problems now is the oil, the stuff I bought and the stuff I already put in, according to my brother, both are totally wrong. wtf?!

Metal Mulisha

and I just wanna make it clear I dont race, I probably dony ride my bike as much/hard as anyone else here, maybe once a week ill drive a tank of gas through it.

1 tank of gas = 2 hours driving.

Metal Mulisha

ok, so I bought 2 gallons of that rotella oil and my brother wont stop saying I got the wrong stuff, that will wreck my engine. I think hes wrong and this is why:

I looked closer and it said for diesel engines and listed a bunch of types, then it said: for gasoline engines type: API SM, SL, SJ.

I assume one of those 3 types of engine is a dirtbike engine, and that rotella oil I bought will work?

CHUD 1 · CHUD 1 August 2008 Posts: 2,337

If there is a manufacturer phone #, call it, and ask them. I would not want to risk ruining my bike, because I used the wrong oil.

elko6

wow how do you go through a tank of gas in 2 hours. you should be able to get like 6 hours.

YZriderr

yea..im pretty sure your bike gets way more than 2 hours from 1 tank of gas

atkkid250

lol yeah. probably more then 2. but it ussualy dont take long. i dont know how big that tank is but a friend of mine has a yzf450 bored out that goes like 3-4 hours on a tank. on my 250 with my 3.1 gallon tank i run about 5. ~Pat

elko6

i have stock tank on my bike and get like 5 in the woods and 3 on a track.

3ll2k7

that stuff will be fine in the gearbox but in a 2 stroke you have to mix the engine oil with the petrol i wud not use that but if you need gear oil thats fine

atkkid250

3ll2k7that stuff will be fine in the gearbox but in a 2 stroke you have to mix the engine oil with the petrol i wud not use that but if you need gear oil thats fine

no~ you dont mix engine oil in the petrol. you mix specified 2 stroke oil in your gas!. not engine oil. lol. someone did this if i remember? didnt mess anything up on account of it not having been run for long. but dont do that. ~pat

Metal Mulisha

yes, I know for a fact I only get about two hours out of a tank, thats because I drive my dirtbike on the roads doing top speed in 5th pretty much the whole time, I could prob get three hours if I really stretched it. its a stock tank.

I know 2 stroke need mixed gas (usually 32:1 or 40:1 ?)

Metal Mulisha

called the honda shop.

they said that rotella is fine to use although I should be using w40 and not w30.

they also said that smoke coming out of the exhaust is normal, and i might be getting a little more smoke than normal because I need a tiny bit of work done to my valves/jets.

when I first take off, and I go from neutral to first, right when I lift my foot and switch gears, it makes a huge CLUNK!! sound. also when im driving, I try to switch from 2nd into 3rd and it stays in second sometimes, now I think thats because my shifter lever is raised for my boots to fit under, and I think im not lifting it quite enough, so im going from 2nd to high RPM 2nd :(, is that because of the oil or im just not lifting my shifter up enough?

elko6

you dont need your boot to fit under. i have mine perfectly level with the bottom of boot when i am sitting in an attack position. this is good becuase it takes minimal effort to raise it up or down.

and are you using the clutch and letting off the throttle.

CHUD 1 · CHUD 1 August 2008 Posts: 2,337

If you have raised the shift lever, it's probably gonna take some practice to shift properly.

Metal Mulisha

of course im using the clutch and letting off the throttle, I would NEVER think of doing it any other way in fear of wrecking something.

the shifter was raised since the first day I bought it. when I TRY to drive my brothers crf 250, I cant get my boot under the shifter... and its no fun to drive. it doesnt take practice to get used to it, it feels super comfortable, I think i was just getting lazy and not lifting it up quite enough.

also, that clank sound is normal, but its extra loud because my chain is a tad loose, I will fix that when I get my new rims, and when I get the rims I will also get the rear brake caliper replaced and a new back tire :P

"this is good becuase it takes minimal effort to raise it up or down." ..... you mean, this is bad because it takes minimal effort. I took my bike to a track once and I kept stepping on the shifter and switching when I wasnt ready to, or expecting it, no clutch action, not letting off the throttle, nothing. just accidently stepping on the shifter and having it shift down on me... not good, I didnt like it. thats why I dont like a super touchy shifter, I keep accidently bumping it!

CHUD 1 · CHUD 1 August 2008 Posts: 2,337

MTLMLSHA, I was just givin you my experience. With the lever raised it takes more effort to upshift, and because of this you will miss shifts.

Metal Mulisha

I know, I didnt mean to offend you.

you are totally right though, I do once in a while miss an upshift, I just went for a pretty long gravel road ride (25 km), and I missed a few upshifts.

with a loose chain, loose spokes/hub, and the "wrong" ;) oil, my bike runs pretty damn good!

the new rims should be in tomorrow or friday, I cant wait!!!

then my bikes going to the mechanic for like a week :(

jake450

so if i run MA oil for my transmission it wont hurt it.?

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